AB 1575

RTA · Post by **RTA** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:44 pm

Does anyone have the knowledge/insight about assembly bill 1575 enough to render an opinion? I have admin. trying to make me buy shoes and travel shirt for a disgruntled parent's child. I have provided what I believe were the correct responses in 1) Gave them the option of buying the shoe we offer or 2) buying a like kind from a different vendor or 3) providing loaners. Principal is being insistent that I buy the shoes and shirt. The purchase of the shoes and shirt are not a prerequisite to students participation or grade. Anyone with a knowledgeable response? Appreciate all and any insight.

mariahorn · Post by **mariahorn** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:40 pm

I would think that if the shoes and shirt are not required to participate, then you can not be forced to purchase them for the student. If the student must wear the shoes and shirt, then I think providing loaners would be ok (but I wonder if resistance to that from parent or principal trying to say its not sanitary is possible). As long as the student has the opportunity to fully participate without what he is wearing affecting his grade, you should be on the safe side.

If principal doesn't believe you, ask him if the school purchases brand new Nike shoes for each member of the basketball team, new Ti89 (or whatever) calculators for each student, etc. As long as the student is allowed to participate and is not forced to buy something, and you have options for that student and/or other students who refuse to purchase anything, you should be fine.

LaurieA · Post by **LaurieA** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:08 pm

"Principal is being insistent that I buy the shoes and shirt."

As a parent who has been a booster president and is also currently a public school teacher, I think the options you have provided are correct. Providing the loaner shirt and shoes would fulfill this if the student was required to have the certain type and without that requirement, this is above and beyond.
However, if the principal is insistant, he/she needs to find the $ for the shirt and shoes from their own budget. You've done your part. The shirt will be clean and the shoes can be sprayed, just like bowling shoes are. There are more germs on the door handles at school than will be in those shoes.

Frankfan · Post by **Frankfan** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:10 pm

How much are the shirt and shoes? Is that amount of money worth it to you to defy your principal and begin a contentious relationship with him/her?

Don't fight this to win the battle because in the long run you will lose the war. Buy the shirt and shoes and be done with it.

Save your strength for something that really matters.

Post by **Bandmaster** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:29 pm

I guess that depends on how many more shirts and shoes you will have buy in the future? Because once you set a precedence you will have buy them for other people too.

Frankfan · Post by **Frankfan** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:05 pm

After 20 years in public school education, is is less desirable to me to fight the "man" over things like shirts and shoes and than it is to save my breath/strength for arguments about maintaining programs, money for repairs/music etc.

And let's face it--the principal is the boss--it doesn't do any good to have an "us against them" stance. In the end, the administrator has the final say. I wouldn't risk my job over band shirts and shoes.

If it's really an issue, turn it over to the boosters and parents, who can be a bigger thorn in the side of the principal anyway, and then it doesn't appear that the band director is the one fighting it.

RTA · Post by **RTA** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:00 pm

Dave is on the track that I am more concerned about. The implied intent from the principal is that I need to buy all the shoes and all the shirts not just one. This is a precedent that I cannot allow. It is not so much a "we vs. them" as a correct interpretation of the CA law that needs proper and correct understanding by the principal and I suspect, the superintendent.

Frankfan · Post by **Frankfan** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:33 pm

You might ask your principal about the policy on PE clothes and athletic uniforms--band shouldn't be any different.

Still--I wouldn't go to war over this. But that's me!

BD94Euph · Post by **BD94Euph** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:36 pm

Buying ONE kid shoes and shirt is not a war. However, buying 100 shirts and 100 shoes forever IS. No way. Not on my watch. No precedent. Call the union rep.

My two-cents. Sorry you have to go through this on top of, I don't know...TEACH MUSIC TO KIDS?!?!:?!?!

Frankfan · Post by **Frankfan** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:51 am

No one is asking this director at present to purchase these items for everyone. Right now the directive is about one student.

The principal has asked this employee to do something specific regarding this situation.

Why do some band directors think they are exempt from following specific instructions from their supervisors? This would be considered insubordination in any other employment situation.

In our current economic climate, it is difficult for many families to cover necessary expenses. A lot of people are out of work and prices for gasoline, groceries, clothing etc. are spiraling out of control. Why not help everyone out and eliminate the travel shirts and shoes? Solves the whole problem, takes away the director headache, gives some relief to families.

Isn't the important thing the performances? Why agonize over something that is not necessary to a successful music performance?

Just my opinion.

Hostrauser · Post by **Hostrauser** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:47 pm

Frankfan wrote:Isn't the important thing the performances? Why agonize over something that is not necessary to a successful music performance?

Just my opinion.

Yes, but that is the band director's opinion, too. The band director has already said that s/he would allow the student to not have the shirt/shoes without affecting the grade. THE PRINCIPAL IS INSISTING THE BAND DIRECTOR PURCHASE THE OUTFIT ANYWAY.

If my boss tells me to go buy office supplies I don't need to complete my job out of my own pocket, I'd resist too. Insubordination to me implies ignoring a reasonable request. This does not seem reasonable.

Frankfan · Post by **Frankfan** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:09 pm

Is the principal insisting it come out of his own pocket? That's a whole other kettle of fish...

Hostrauser · Post by **Hostrauser** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:57 pm

Frankfan wrote:Is the principal insisting it come out of his own pocket? That's a whole other kettle of fish...

Well, you're right, I made an assumption here. Mainly because I can't see why there would be a fight if these were school/district provided funds. Perhaps the original poster can clarify if the expectation is for him/her to purchase these out of pocket.

Luis · Post by **Luis** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:54 am

If this were me and I was told by my principal to buy the student's shirt and shoes, I'd probably do it as a courtesy and most importantly,to get the parent and principal off my back. In doing this, I know what would likely happen afterwards....word will spread that this student didn't have to pay for his/her shirt and shoes, causing other parents to complain.
It's a tough situation. Good luck to you on this outcome.

Frankfan · Post by **Frankfan** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:19 am

As I mentioned before I think it is important to find o
ut the policy for athletics/cheer/pe etc and then make sure all are in alignment. For what its worth I have provided items free for individuals over the years and it never "got out" nor was there a directive to provide for everyone. Most parents want to pay their fair share.

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